ASU should sue Pac-10 officials/no tourny

I'm so tired of hearing "but ASU beat UA twice, so they deserve a bid over UA".  You have to look at the entire body of work, and that's where that argument falls apart.  You could make the argument that if two teams are equal in all other respects, the team with the better head-to-head record should get the nod, but these two teams are NOT equal in all other respects.  Better conference record?  Yes, if you include the head-to-head matchups.  But against the other eight teams, UA was 8-8 and ASU was 7-9.  Better overall record?  Yes, but no sane person can claim that UA wouldn't have had a better record than 19-14 if they played the non-conference schedule ASU did rather than games @ Kansas, @ Memphis, against Virginia, etc...  Quality wins?  Arizona beat Texas A&M, UNLV, Washington State (twice), USC and Houston.  Arizona State beat Xavier, USC, Stanford and Oregon.

It didn't even come down to Arizona or Arizona State.  There were four other at large teams chosen after UA and before ASU - Kentucky, Baylor, Villanova and Kansas State.  It's clear that there was much more to separate UA and ASU this year than their head-to-head results.

I don't disagree that ASU deserved a bid this year.  They had a great season.  But given the strength of the Pac 10 and the likelihood that they're going to lose a handful of games, they have to play and beat some quality non-conference opponents.  You can argue the logic all day long, but it is what it is and it is what it has been.  You know what they look at - SOS, RPI, etc... and you have to have success in those areas to get an at large bid.

ASU will be better next year (if Pendergraph returns and they stay healthy).  But, so will most of the other teams.  It could be a case, again, of who ASU plays and beats out of conference.

U of A wins

Washington State (2)
@ USC
Texas A&M
@ UNLV (Mountain West tournament champs)
Cal State Fullerton (Big West tournament champs)

Lol at you listing UNLV A+M CSUF as big wins. Sure arizona played big teams but lost to everyone. You beat noone all year.

Next year all ASU has to do is schedule Memphis, Duke, NC, Tennessee and lose to everyone to get into the tourney?

Weak.

Exactly.

And, Arizona beat nobody?  Washington State (who swept ASU, by the way) isn't a good team?  USC, not a good team?  Texas A&M, not a good team?

And yes, to answer SDSU's question, if you play good teams and lose, it gives you more credibility than if you play bad teams and lose.

Excluding the two games UA and ASU played against each other, UA is 19-12 and ASU is 17-12, and UA's done that against a much more difficult schedule.  In the last fifteen games of the year, UA is 7-8, ASU is 10-15 (against the same teams).  Outside of the head-to-head matchup, UA comes out on top on virtually all comparisons between the two teams.

You're right, this is an open forum and UA and ASU fans can state their opinions, whatever they may be.  I'm not bashing ASU.  In fact, I think they were worthy of a bid, just not ahead of UA for the reasons I stated previously.  I still think the only relevant argument on ASU's behalf is that they beat UA in both meetings this year (forget that UA was missing Bayless in the first game and Wise in the second).  If you exclude the two games in which they played each other, UA wins virtually every comparison - overall record, conference record, record over the last 15 games, etc...  I could care less about the NATIONAL media - who's to say their opinion is worth more than mine or yours?  "Plenty of people in the NATIONAL media" making a case for ASU over UA does not mean that ASU should have gotten in over UA.  Besides, there are "plenty" of people in the national media explaining that UA rightfully got the bid over teams like ASU and VaTech.

Some questions...

• What happens if ASU is without Harden and/or Pendergraph for 11 games this year, as UA was without Bayless and/or Wise?
• What happens if ASU swaps Cal Poly, Florida Gulf Coast, Delaware State, St. Francis, PA and Coppin State with Kansas, Memphis, Illinois (oh wait, ASU did play Illinoise and lost by 23), UNLV and Houston (and UA swapped those teams for Cal Poly, Florida Gulf Coast, etc...)?

Look, ASU had a very good season but there's no question their RPI and SOS hurt them.  Maybe if ASU played Kansas, Memphis, etc..., they'd have won a few of those games.  We'll never know, but it sure would have been easier to compare ASU with some of the other teams that made it in.

ASU will be good next year, especially if Pendergraph returns.  I'm just hoping they don't shy away from playing tough, non-conference opponents so we're not debating why they didn't get in next year.