Next Year

All you nay sayers for next year, go cheer for Rutgers or St Johns.  The future is real bright for us.  First of all, Our best player missed half the season.  Theres no way we lose to Penn State, Marquette (road), Nova, St Johns, Rutgers had Gause been there.  Is that Gonzalez's fault?  Harrangody or however its spelled crushed Gause and there went our season.  Our press didnt work, Harvey had to play the Point eventhough his decision making is poor at best, and Larry Davis got extended time because we have no bench.  But I guess the NCAA deciding Glover was ineligible was Gonzalez's fault since he was at the administration department at American Christian.  Oh wait, thats right, no he wasnt.

Next year, Gary Flowers will be here, Theodre will be here, and hopefully Glover will too.  Laing and Mitchell are the same player.  Laing didnt show up down the stretch and came up rather small against St Johns, Rutgers etc...  And lets not forget that Paul will be back.  Nutter will surely be missed, however we will finally have depth and Garcias knees will be 1 year healthier. 

Harvey/Theodre at the PG, Gause at the 2, Stix at the 3, Flowers at the 4, Garcia at the 5.  With Hazzell, theodre, okuson, davis,davis, hopefully glover coming off the bench.  We will be just fine

Why are you knocking Laing? He was an All Big East selection, led the team in pts. and was tied for the lead in rebounds. Where is the rebounding going to come from next year? Garcia, Davis and Okuson were destroyed off the boards this year. Laing will be missed. Other than Gause, who else on this team plays solid defense?

Yes, the coach is ultimately responsible for everyone he recruits. Glover was ineligible, Flowers had drug charges and speeding charges against him. These are the athletes Gonzalez is attracting and recruiting at Seton Hall.

Harvey was terrible this year. Thedore will be a rookie. Gause is injury prone, Is Flowers coming and will he be eligible?, Garcia has chronic knee problems, can Mitchell compete in the Big East?, will Glover be eligible?, Okuson is too raw and Hazzell is too streaky. These are just a few of the problems and questions going into next year. I haven't even started on the coach and his antics on and off the court. Not pretty.

I will always be a Seton Hall fan win or lose. But, I am a realist. The truth hurts and next year could be an embarrassment.

Im not bashing Laing.  Hes turned into quite possibly a NBA player.  However in terms of what he was for this team, and where we will be missed, we have a clone to him in Stix Mitchell.  Nutter will be so sorely missed, like Billmeir was this season.  The truth is that Laing whether exhausted towards the end of the season, or whatever played like crap.  Yes he was forced to play PF which isnt his position, however he came up so small in his last 2 games.  And for the record, Laing never played defense.  Besides harvey, he was probably the worst defender on the team.

Gause will allow Gonzalez to press effectively and with a bench of more than 2 players we wont wear out late in the season.  Flowers, Glover, Theodre, both davis's, Okuson, they dont have to be great players.  They just have to be able to compete. 

Stix will be as good as Laing, has 3 years of eligibility, and actually plays defense.  Gause was our best player and he will be healthy.  Injury prone?  Jeff Adrien's dirty play broke his hand, and Harrangodys freak play tore his acl, and ruined our season.  2 freak plays makes someone injury prone?

 If Harvey continues to struggle, then either Gause can play the point, and move harvey to the 2, or have Theodre spell him.  Garcia had great flashes, and towards the end of the season was the only consistant player on both sides of the ball.  

If nothing else, players will have to compete for minutes next year.  The unfortunate truth is that we had no bench, especially when Gause got hurt.  Larry Davis, and especially Eugene Harvey knew they would get minutes regardless of how they played.  That wont be the case finally.

Gause, Stix, Flowers, Garcia and whomever plays the point is good enough to compete next year for an NCAA bid.  And should flowers not come, Hazzell can start.  We will have some depth, and experience. 

Oh and in regards to your comment about the "types" of players hes recruiting.  Glover is enrolled at school, paying his OWN way.  NO SCHOLARSHIP.  Hes somehow forking the 38,000+ a year through student loans to be at Seton Hall.  So if you want to attack the kids character, then maybe you should look in the mirror.

And as far as Flowers goes.  Yea hes made mistakes.  2 years ago.  Im sorry that everyone ant be as perfect as you, and always make the right decisions.  Fortunately, through hard work and dedication, theres these things called second chances.  And a kid like Flowers will work his ass off to prove he was worth that 2nd chance.  

I could list hundreds of kids that made mistakes when they were 16,17,18,19 years old and have turned into well rounded individuals and made the most of their second chance.  Why should flowers be deprived of that?

Never claimed to be perfect or a know it all like you. Just stating the facts. Glover was ineligible and Flowers has had problems with the law. UNLV and Jerry Tarkanian were ripped apart by the media for years about his recruiting. Seton Hall is a CATHOLIC University which normally has higher standards. I don't know either Flowers or Glover personally like you must do. I do hope you are right and both turn their lives around.

You can defend Gonzalez all you want. He was overlooked and passed over by many schools because of his act. I think Seton Hall finally realizes they made a mistake. He's been reprimanded at least 3 times already by Seton Hall in the past month and was suspended for the first game next year. Is this the coach you really want at Seton Hall? He's not a good enough coach (like a Bobby Knight) for Seton Hall to put up with his crap. People are starting to take notice and he is embarrassing Seton Hall. But, you may have lower standards than others. Even Jim Boheim has offered to talk with Gonzalez about toning down his act. Other Big East coaches feeling sorry for Seton Hall. What a shame.

Hey jackass, you're probably one of those brainless fools that thinks Louis Orr was a great coach for us.  3 postseasons in 5 years, what an accomplishment.  Except the 2nd NCAA we had no business being in, and he had Andre Barrett for 3 years, and managed a first round loss to Rhode Island in the NIT after being up 13 with under 5 to go, along with an NCAA bid where we were down 20 to Arizona before Barrett and Whitney took over for a lucky win.  And what happened when we played duke?  Oh yea, we didnt even show up to play.

And FYI, American Chrstian was accredited this week.  Probably because Tyreke Evans is set to graduate this June.  The NCAA is a joke and the fact that Glover was rejected is appalling but again, thats Gonzos fault right?

Didn't Seton Hall blow a 17 pt. lead at home to Rutgers this year? How about blowing the 10 pt. lead to St. John's with 5 to go this year? You must be blaming Laing for these losses too. Can't knock Gonzo.

I agree the NCAA is a joke. I agree Orr wasn't a great coach because he couldn't recruit. But Louis Orr knows basketball and he does a good job teaching big men. He is also a better X's and O's guy than Gonzo. You don't have to act like an ass to be a good coach. You are knocking Orr for being mild mannered. He got his point across when he had too. Plus he has more class in one finger than Gonzo has in his entire body. Orr is respected by everyone in basketball. Gonzo just the opposite. But continue your praise for Gonzo who has won and done nothing here. He needs to make 3 straight postseason appearances (and win 1 NCAA tourney game) just to do what Orr did (which you dismissed as "luck"). Don't hold your breath. If Gonzo lasts another 3 years at Seton Hall it will be a miracle. He is on thin ice already after only 2 years. He is going to be watched closely by the administration and he better grow up soon.

One more time, Orr isnt respected by ANYONE that matters in basketball.  First of all, while at Seton Hall he got into fights with players, and assistants.   Yea, real classy, I know.  2nd, develop big men?  Was that a joke?  Greg Morton never got any better, Billmeir ddint do anything until last year when Gonzalez was here for his senior year, David Palmer transfered out, Maurico Branwell transfered out, and Marcus Cousin transfered out.  Thats right, in 5 years we had 3 promising big men come into the program, and leave.  Not to mention the fact that we had a 7-1 coordinated guy that never played more than 5mins in a game in his 3 years at seton hall in Alexander Gambino.  Where was the development there?  Orr didnt develop anyones talent, he leetched off an all senior team at Siena for 1 year, then came here and did the same thing with Andre Barrett.  How does a team consisting of Andre Barrett, Andre Sweet, Greg Morton, Kelly Whitney and Marcus Toney El miss the NCAAs 1 year, then only get an NIT bid the following.  Come on, Orr was trash and whether you like Gonzalez's antics or not doesnt give you the right to put them into the same conversation as far as coaching.

As Ive said, Gonzalez may go too far at times, but you know what, Id much rather have that than have him sit on the bench with a listless look on his face having not a clue of whats going on.  NO ONE will ever care about our kids/program more than Gonzalez and thats what we need.

And to compare our losses this year with no bench where Laing played 40mins/game, Harvey who is possibly the worst PG in the Big East playing 38mins to a team loaded with talent that drastically underachieved with the BEST PG in the conference and big men who could finish is just stupid.

Just remember that we were 15-7 and 5-3 with Paul back and at the time projected to be a 10 seed in the NCAAs when he got hurt.  We were also projected to finish 13th in the Big East with a full roster, Chris Smith, Glover, and a healthy gause  assumed on our roster all year, and we did better than that.

So unless you can give me 1 big man that he developed, (there are none with plenty of opportunities) please keep your love of Orr to yourself.

Even an outsider like SAllen can see what is going on. He is right. Gonzalez is a carpetbagger. You really thinks he cares about Seton Hall? He is a phony who only cares about himself. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. He would leave Seton Hall in a heartbeat if a better job came along. But who would want him anyway? He's taken Manhattan to the tournament. That is the highlight of his resume. So has this years Siena coach. Should the Siena coach get the Providence job because of this one year?

And what do you have against Orr? He was a coach under Jim Boeheim. Boeheim has always said Orr was one of the best coaches he ever had. Do you remember Orr as a player? He was very good at Syracuse and had a good career with the Knicks. He knows the game of basketball. But you don't like him because he didn't do jumping jacks on the sidelines and cry and complain after every foul call. No, he acted like a professional and like an adult. Not like a punk. He wasn't a good recruiter and that was his demise. I agree he couldn't recruit kids from Jersey and New York. His base was Chicago where he got Whitney from.

SAllen, I think he is angry because he really believes in Gonzo. The both of us see Gonzo differently. I am a Hall fan but I am not a homer. I see Gonzo going bye bye after another disappointing season next year on and especially off the court.

One more time, ORR HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with us getting JR Morris, Kelly Whitney, or Stan Gaines from the Chicago area.  That was the head assistant at the time.

Everyone that wants to bash Gonzalez... Use your brains and look at the facts.  Where were we headed with Orr?  What would the roster look like?  We didnt even have a starting lineup when he was fired after Palmer, and Cousin transfered.  Then take into account the fact that we had 2 kids transfer out, Glover was ruled ineligible by the NCAA which is a joke within itself.  Finally, remember that our best all around player missed half the season. 

We were projected to finish 13th before the season started with a full roster, and we did better than that, minus 4 players.  What did everyone expect to happen once Gause tore his knee?  The season was over.  We had no bench, no depth, and 2 listless turnover machines playing 30mins per game in Larry Davis and Eugene Harvey.  Laing was forced to play 40mins/game at PF, usually undersized by a good 5 or 6 inches.  Garcia injured his knee again.  There were rumors that Harcum College accreditation was under review, which is why Okuson started against Notre Dame, and didnt play a single minute for the next 3 games.

What coach was going to do better with what we had?  Gonzalez has developed a foundation for our future that will give us a chance to compete for years to come.

And finally, back to Orr.  The man destroyed our program.  Lets look at who he lost in his 5 year tenure.  Maurico Branwell transfered out, Darius Lane was told not to come back for his prop 48 granted extra year, JR Morris entered the NBA draft early to get away from the man, Justin Cerasoli, another recruit from the head assistant left, Marcus Cousin left, and David Palmer did too.  Laing was on the verge of transfering when he was fired.  Then theres Alexander Gambino who was 7-1 and got no playing time EVER.  Nice developing job for a big guy that atleast in warmups hit elbow jumpers, and looked co-ordinated.  He didnt develop any talent whatsoever.

First year, he went 12-18, 5-11  with a talented roster.  Much better than we had this year.

2nd year, he went 17-13, 10-6 NIT first round loss  with andre barrett running the pg as a junior, andre sweet fresh off transfer, Harrod and Morton as seniors, Whitney, Morris, Allen and Toney El.  Rather underachieving season, not the mention the fact that he flat out told Lane he wasnt welcomed back for his Senior year.  Brilliant move, I know.

3rd year, he went 21-10, 10-6 NCAA 2nd round with Andre Barrett, Fray, and Toney El as Seniors, Allen, and Sweet as juniors, Morris and Whitey as Sophs.  We were done 20 or so against Arizona before Barrett and Whitney abs took over.  We underachieved all year, and only managed the 8-9 game in the first round.

4th year, he went 12-16, 4-12, no postseason.  Whitney, Allen, Morris, Sweet, Nutter, Cerosoli, Laing, Copeland, Billmeir...  Once again, much more talented than this year

5th year, he went 18-12, 9-7, first  round NCAA embarrassment after losing first round big east tourney.  Didnt deserve a bid, (lost by 13 to RU in first round of Big East) and didnt bother showing up for the NCAA game...  Copeland played out of his mind all year which was amazing within itself.  Chicago assistant was gone, and Whitney digressed his senior year.  Had Nutter, Gaines, Gause, Billmeir, Laing, Cousin, Palmer  as well...

In conclussion, over 5 years, he won 2 postseason game, (NCAA first round, and Big East first round vs Miami) out of 10 tries.  We had 6 players of impact leave the program early over 5 years which is unheard of.  He didnt develop anyone he had.  So if anyone is a carpetbagger, that would definately be Orr.  He benefited from an all senior team at siena where he was a coach for 1 year, before coming here.  He had ANDRE BARRETT for 3 years, and won 2 post conference game out of 7 tries. 

Our roster had Orr stayed following that wonderful performance vs W State would have been  Nutter, Gause, Gaines, Garcia (out first half of year) Billmeir, (got hurt halfway through season anyway) Carl Marshall, and Mani Messy.  Yes, that is correct, 6 scholarship players to start the season, and around the time Garcia came back, Billmeir is lost for the season. 

Marshall at PG, Gause at the 2, Nutter at SF, Gaines at PF, and Billmeir at Center, with the amazing Mani Messy coming off the bench, along with 4 or 5 walk ons.  How many wins was that team getting?  maybe 5?   We went 13-16 last year granted 4-12 in Big East, however lost 5 games by 5 or less and for the most part was an exciting season. 

This year we had a winning record with very little talent.  Eugene Harvey is arguably the worst starting PG in the Big East, we were undersized, had a devastating injury, had an impact player ruled ineligble, and 2 transfer out before ever playing a minute along with a scholarship used up for Mitchell sitting out.

As long as Flowers comes, we have adaquate size next year, will have a deep bench, ad most importantly, Paul back and healthy.  Anyone that thinks the future isnt bright with Gonzalez simply isnt very intelligent.

I guess thats the end of the defending Orr garbage on these boards.