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Riddle me this one. Completely OT!  Sports News
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Riddle me this one. Completely OT!


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Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 4, 2007

May 7, 2008 4:43 pm

Also, it is questionable that IF a person accepts the "challenge" of the original "you" and intimately becomes the person on the show, that at that point, is he/she privy to the remainder of the info you provide, including what the host knows. IOW, is the info about what the host knows for the benefit of the nonparticipating reader or the person who becomes the "you" on the show.

LOL


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Nov 8, 2006

May 7, 2008 4:55 pm

If you know the game show host knows, you switch, but if you don't know if he knows.  It doesn't matter...So it doesn't matter if the host knows, it matters if the guesser knows the host knows.

Wrong again.  It only matters if the host knows.  As long as the host knows, it is in the guesser's best interest to switch (whether the guesser knows the host knows doesn't change the probability). 

So if you MEANT the definite "you" rather than the indefinite "you", you didn't explain that well enough. 

Regardless of which "you" it is the answer doesn't change.  YOU (the guy typing on the keyboard) are the one deciding if it is better for YOU (the guy staring at Bob Barker's Babes) to switch. 


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 4, 2007

May 7, 2008 5:08 pm
That's your opinion, Smokey. Problem is ... as the writer of the problem, you cannot assume how the reader will interpret your words. As a previous poster wrote, apparently from a statistical standpoint, it is critical to the problem whether the game show participant KNOWs whether the host knows. And from the words you used in your original post, you leave it up to the reader to interpret what you meant. If the point was not critical to solving the problem, your loose language wouldn't be an issue. Since apparently the point is critical to the problem, your loose language IS the issue ...

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 12, 2008

May 7, 2008 5:11 pm
ok here's the difference:

Smokey is on a game show and there are three doors, one of which there is a car behind. Smokey doesn't know which one, and doesn't know if the host knows. the host reveals there is nothing behind door two. if the host doesn't know, smokeys probability of winning the car is 1/2, if the host does, its 2/3. its smarter for smokey to switch based on this, but that doesn't guarantee the probability is 2/3.

i know the host knows, but it was unclear in the question whether or not smokey knew if the host knew.


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 12, 2008

May 7, 2008 5:13 pm
Can anyone figure this one out?

A warden meets with 23 prisoners. He tells them the following:

- Each prisoner will be placed into a room numbered 1-23. Each will be alone in the room, which will be soundproof, lightproof, etc. In other words, they will NOT be able to communicate with each other.

- They will be allowed one planning session before they are taken to their rooms.

- There is a special room, room 0. In this room are 2 switches, which can each be either UP or DOWN. They cannot be left in between, they are not linked in any way (so there are 4 possible states), and they are numbered 1 and 2. Their current positions are unknown.

- One at a time, a prisoner will be brought into room 0. The prisoner MUST change one and only one switch. The prisoner is then returned to his cell.

- At any time t, given some N> 0, there exists a finite t_0 by which time every prisoner will have visited room 0 at least N times. (in other words, there is no fixed pattern to the order or frequency with which prisoners visit room 0, but at any given time, every prisoner is guaranteed to visit room 0 again). (If you're still confused by this statement, ignore it, and you should be ok).

- At any time, any prisoner may declare that all 23 of them have been in room 0. If right, the prisoners go free. If wrong, they are all executed.

What initial strategy is 100% guaranteed to let all go free?


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Nov 8, 2006

May 7, 2008 5:32 pm

As a previous poster wrote, apparently from a statistical standpoint, it is critical to the problem whether the game show participant knows whether the host knows.

Again, whether the participant knows the host knows doesn't matter at all for the sake of answering the riddle.  You (the person reading the riddle) know the host knows, so you are supplied with all the information you need to determine which decision is to the advantage of the game show participant.


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 12, 2008

May 7, 2008 5:45 pm
yes the reader knows, but it was unclear as to whether or not this problem was to be evaluated from the perspective of the participant (which would be logical) or not.

lets move on and keep having some riddle fun. theres still an unsolved riddle on the board.


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 4, 2007

May 7, 2008 6:39 pm
badger, re: "warden meets with 23 prisoners" ... We've been there, done that in this thread ... and MY HEAD STILL HURTS !!!

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 28, 2007

May 7, 2008 7:28 pm

Prisoner 23 is the only one who is allowed to turn switch #1 OFF.

All other prisoners may turn switch #1 ON only one time.  Once they have done this, they are to toggle switch #2 on or off.

Prisoner 23 turns off switch #1 every time he sees it turned on and counts how many times he has done this.

When Prisoner 23 has counted switch #1 being turned on 22 times, all prisoners have been in the room.

(you're evil, badger).


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 12, 2008

May 7, 2008 8:32 pm
congratulations, but i think he needs to see the switch on 23 times, because it could have been originally on.

nonetheless, i am very impressed.


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 5, 2007

May 7, 2008 10:24 pm
Two miles at 60 mph takes two minutes, but the first lap already took two minutes.  If the timer blinks, tell him this is the second lap.

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 5, 2007

May 7, 2008 10:37 pm
1st lap - 30 mphTime's up.  You lose.

Average speed is total distance divided by total time, not the average of the two speeds.

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 5, 2007

May 7, 2008 10:57 pm
Nicely done, CZIMMY, not only the solution but the explanation doesn't need two pages of clarification.  I can tell you studied logic -- did you also teach it?

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 5, 2007

May 7, 2008 11:38 pm
Smokey, as my previous response on the cycle riddle clearly demonstrated, I'm no math wiz, but your most recent response puts you into my bailiwick ...And that bailiwick seems to exhibit a preference for semantic obfuscation over the effort to understand a clear explanation.  i.e. cajuninca can't be quizzed as long as we're arguing the fairness of the question or some nonsense about definite vs indefinite pronouns. 

Disregarding who was told what was known by whom, when the host opens a door, I (the contestant) can be sure the host wasn't taking a chance on revealing the prize (a car, wasn't it?).  At that point, the change of selection is clearly advantageous. 
Either I (the contestant) was right on my (the contestant's) first try [1-in-3 chance], or otherwise [remaining 2-in-3 chances].  I'd be dumber than a semanticist to choose the open door.


BTW, is "streetwalker" a definite pronoun?
I know -- it's a noun defining a pro, but is that not indefinite, per se?

Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 4, 2007

May 8, 2008 11:52 am
In this case, KU62, obfuscation was the crime of the original poster. That was the problem ... apparently ... since the second poster misread the question and misformulated his/her solution based on that misreading ... mis-ter :)


Riddle me this one. Completely OT!
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 28, 2007

May 8, 2008 1:20 pm
congratulations, but i think he needs to see the switch on 23 times, because it could have been originally on.

 

nonetheless, i am very impressed.

I figured 22, because he already knew he, himself had been in the room.

I wouldn't be too impressed, If I were presented the problem in real life it would have probably taken me too long to figure it out for it to work.

(I thought that was hard, but I hate seeing something that I can't figure out how to do it - this one made me feel pretty dumb for a while.  I kept thinking there was some trick to it, also - like there were less rooms than prisoners, so the one should let everyone else out or something like that.)