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What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 12, 2008 12:49 pm
Is that if you don't self-report yourself, then the NCAA wont care. 

PATHETIC!!

So paying players is more tolerated than making too many calls to recruits?

I sure hope not. 

What does that say? 

It's okay to send checks to recruits, just not too many texts. 

What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 12, 2008 12:52 pm
If the NCAA hopes to maintain some level of character and dignity in college basketball, they have to come down hard on this.  On the school, on the coach, and on the player. 

Otherwise, the best teams will become the best teams (that money can buy). 

(if they aren't already). 

What this says
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 7, 2007

May 12, 2008 2:00 pm

I agree with you that this isn't acceptable.  However, recruiting violations like texting and a player receiving benefits from an outside source aren't exactly the same.  Sampson, for example, knew exactly what he was doing, knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway.  Floyd probably had a good idea, but didn't actually KNOW that Mayo was receiving benefits.  It's a little harder deny knowledge of this kind of thing in basketball, I think, since the team is so much smaller.

That being said, coaches and institutions still can't go around holding their players hands 24/7.  If a player and a booster are determined to violate the rules, the university is not going to be able to stop them.  It's going to take a dumb move on the part of those partaking in the collusion for them to be caught.

So, since universities aren't able to keep players from doing this, what would you all think if a university was able to sue the former player for the damages they incur from that player's irresponsibility?  As it is now, players like O.J. Mayo and Reggie Bush get off free while their former university faces sanctions from the NCAA.


What this says
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 7, 2007

May 12, 2008 2:00 pm

I agree with you that this isn't acceptable.  However, recruiting violations like texting and a player receiving benefits from an outside source aren't exactly the same.  Sampson, for example, knew exactly what he was doing, knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway.  Floyd probably had a good idea, but didn't actually KNOW that Mayo was receiving benefits.  It's a little harder deny knowledge of this kind of thing in basketball, I think, since the team is so much smaller.

That being said, coaches and institutions still can't go around holding their players hands 24/7.  If a player and a booster are determined to violate the rules, the university is not going to be able to stop them.  It's going to take a dumb move on the part of those partaking in the collusion for them to be caught.

So, since universities aren't able to keep players from doing this, what would you all think if a university was able to sue the former player for the damages they incur from that player's irresponsibility?  As it is now, players like O.J. Mayo and Reggie Bush get off free while their former university faces sanctions from the NCAA.


What this says
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 7, 2007

May 12, 2008 2:01 pm

I agree with you that this isn't acceptable.  However, recruiting violations like texting and a player receiving benefits from an outside source aren't exactly the same.  Sampson, for example, knew exactly what he was doing, knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway.  Floyd probably had a good idea, but didn't actually KNOW that Mayo was receiving benefits.  It's a little harder deny knowledge of this kind of thing in basketball, I think, since the team is so much smaller.

That being said, coaches and institutions still can't go around holding their players hands 24/7.  If a player and a booster are determined to violate the rules, the university is not going to be able to stop them.  It's going to take a dumb move on the part of those partaking in the collusion for them to be caught.

So, since universities aren't able to keep players from doing this, what would you all think if a university was able to sue the former player for the damages they incur from that player's irresponsibility?  As it is now, players like O.J. Mayo and Reggie Bush get off free while their former university faces sanctions from the NCAA.


What this says
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 7, 2007

May 12, 2008 2:03 pm
Sorry about that, my computer was acting weird.

What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 12, 2008 2:16 pm
However, recruiting violations like texting and a player receiving benefits from an outside source aren't exactly the same.  Sampson, for example, knew exactly what he was doing, knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway.Sampson actually "claimed" to not know he was breaking rules. 

It's naive to think Floyd didn't know this was going on.   (just as it would be naive to think Sampson didn't know he was breaking rules.)  Also, even in the highly unlikely case that Floyd didn't know, he would have had to be completely ignorant to the goings-on of his program.  Because of the liability of the coach when it comes to the legitimacy of a program, it is his job to know these kind of things, and if he didn't, that shows severe negligence. 

If a player and a booster are determined to violate the rules, the university is not going to be able to stop them.

Prevention is difficult, but the way to stop it, is by coming down hard when you've caught them.  That is why it's essential to punish the player, the coach, and the school.  Give due punishment, and maybe other programs/players/coaches doing the same thing will think twice about doing it again.

What this says
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Reputation:88
Level:All-Star
Since:Dec 10, 2007

May 12, 2008 2:19 pm
This is MUCH worse that phone calls.  We are talking cold hard CASH, and the part that is not being talked about is the possibility of point shaving.  If they had him that tied up, then they most certainly could have had him shaving points......this could get really ugly fast.

What this says
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Reputation:83
Level:All-Star
Since:Aug 24, 2006

May 12, 2008 4:43 pm

The difference between Sampson and Floyd is active vs. passive participation. Sampson orchestrated the phone calls and illegal recruitment of players. He was a knowing participant of luring kids to his school. Floyd was niave at best and looking the other way at worst. As the article states, the money paid to Mayo had absolutely nothing to do with him attending USC or playing for coach Floyd. The money paid had everything do to with exposure and the schools location in LA. If IU were located in LA, he might have gone there. Remember this wasn't money to get him to go to USC, it was money to get him to sign with BDA. BIG difference.

Had a USC booster paid Mayo this would be a different story.


What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 25, 2007

May 12, 2008 5:50 pm
Here's the thing about it though, we already know that the majority of the top-flight athletes in college are getting paid, many of them from when they were still in High School.  Why?  Because modern sports marketing labels the top players when they're sophomores or earlier in High School, and the agencies just move in and say... "Hi, how would you like to become famous and be a top pick in the NBA draft?"
From there it just goes on...

For that reason, I don't think the NCAA can really throw the book @ USC, especially because we all know that there are dozens of other players doing the same thing, but they just have managed to not get caught so far.  Oftentimes it is just the friend or partner who thinks he's not getting his share so they go complain about it and rat... that's the situation here, that's what it was with Reggie Bush, and that's what happened w/ Kelvin Sampson... the messages and such that got him in trouble were to a student that went to another school.

I think the NCAA needs to clean up its entire act, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Also on the topic, regarding coaches and improper recruiting practices, how many coaches have we heard about that have gotten in trouble for giving money/ gifts to an athlete, because that athlete happens to be their SON? (Dan Hawkins-Cody Hawkins @ CU is the most recent I can think of)

What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 12, 2008 6:07 pm
The difference between Sampson and Floyd is active vs. passive participation. Sampson orchestrated the phone calls and illegal recruitment of players. He was a knowing participant of luring kids to his school. Floyd was niave at best and looking the other way at worstThat's just it.  Sampson initially claimed that he didn't know that rules were being broken.  He claimed to be a passive participant, just like Floyd. He claimed it was his assistant coach knowingly making illegal calls. 

Either way, I don't see that Floyd is guilty of a lesser crime.  He was just slightly less involved with a more serious crime. Claiming the ignorance is no defense, and Floyd shouldn't be let off for that lame excuse.  (no court in america will let that fly.  It's like saying, I didn't know there were drugs in my car, see if the judge cares.)

the money paid to Mayo had absolutely nothing to do with him attending USC

The article might state that, doesn't mean it's true. Do we know for sure that Mayo would have gone to USC if he didn't get any money (whether directly or indirectly)? 

Maybe he went to USC because he knew he would get money, and he knew that USC would not care. 

Yes it would be worse if it was USC boosters giving money, but it in no way alleviates  blame from the university.  (it is their responsibility to make sure their student athletes don't take money, and it's becoming widely known that they will let their players take money). 


What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 12, 2008 6:10 pm
For that reason, I don't think the NCAA can really throw the book @ USC, especially because we all know that there are dozens of other players doing the same thing, but they just have managed to not get caught so far. and by letting them off, the NCAA would be indirectly encouraging this. 

and that's what happened w/ Kelvin Sampson... the messages and such that got him in trouble were to a student that went to another school.
Not true.  Indiana reported themselves to the NCAA, when they did their own investigation into sampson's recruiting.  (and they investigated because Sampson was already on probation, not because of a rat). 

What this says
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Reputation:83
Level:All-Star
Since:Aug 24, 2006

May 12, 2008 7:11 pm

Yes, Indiana "reported themselves" but that investigation turned out to be just the tip of the iceberg. The reality of the situation is that IU only reported some of the infractions and an intern caught the other infractions. That's why the NCAA came back with more violations (of which IU is about to agree with) and that will be an even bigger problem for IU. 

I think the point that's being missed here is that Mayo was being paid LONG before he ever decided on a college. What if USC said they didn't want him to come to their school? Mayo would have gone somewhere else and still been paid at Nowhere State University. He was going to get paid no matter what "institute of higher learning" he attended.


What this says
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 13, 2007

May 12, 2008 9:38 pm

So Floyd never asked the questions like "where did you get the giant plasma tv OJ? or why are you driving an Escalade with $8000 rims?"  Then he can claim he didn't know?  They don't do bed checks at USC?  No one saw that a college kid had thousands and thousands of dollars worth of stuff?  Yeah right.  Pleading "ignorant" is the best that USC will be able to do?  The NCAA should hit them as hard as they are going to hit Indiana or anyone else. 

Once the "handler" got access to the program and extra benefits like tickets and the like he became a "booster" under NCAA guidelines; so even if it was to send the kid to BDA, the University and the individuals benefited so they should be punished.


What this says
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006

May 13, 2008 9:45 am
Yes, Indiana "reported themselves" but that investigation turned out to be just the tip of the iceberg.They reported the infractions they knew about.  They obviously knew this would lead to an ncaa investigation, therefore it's ridiculous to imply they reported some infractions with the hopes of hiding others. 

and that will be an even bigger problem for IU.

Neither of us really know what problems lay ahead.  It's not a given that the NCAA willl give any further sanctions, considering IU layed some pretty heavy sanctions on themselves. 

My point behind that is, IU reports themselves, regardless of whether they didn't report every single infractions, while USC hoped to cover up.  In my eyes, that a huge difference. 

He was going to get paid no matter what "institute of higher learning" he attended.
Wrong.  Some universities don't allow their players to get money.  It's silly to think all universities would allow this, just because USC does.  Some schools strictly govern the activiites of their players.   Now, there are some other schools he could have