| |
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:May 23, 2007
|
|
Beans,
Remember we won the division.. We made the playoffs... It suree will be laughable if the Bengals go 7-9 again or worse.. I have learned success one year does not mean success the next year.. Even Steelers fans can vouch for that.. They haven't won the division back to back in a while.. Sprinkle some Ravens and one Bengals one year means nothing next year.. But I understand the optimism..
You give Gmiller too much credit... Yeah I stalked his post?? hmm...I think I posted on this thread before mr.. G.. Go look at the 1 page Beans.. Come on now.. Make sure you know what you are talkin about before you start attacking....
I live in Dayton, a mix of Browns and Bengals.. You guys crack me up that is why I come on to your board.. Comedy!! Boyy did I enjoy last December's game... I didn't even have to say anthing to my Browns friends just gave them a big fat 
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:May 23, 2007
|
|
andddd Yes I know we went 7-9 but last year Browns fans over enjoyed themselves and let us Bengals fans know of their happiness much more than I ever let them know about how things were going when we won the division and the media loved us.. Maybe it was pittyyy but I sure know Browns nation came out of the woodworks last year and let us Bengals fans know about it!
|
|
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 17, 2007
|
|
and about the TE... I'd go with Miller... He won't be demanding WR money like umm Soldier Boy! Plus Miller has Parker, Ward and Holmes and now Sweed.. Winslow I mean Soldier Boy has Edwards... Wonder who will get more balls???
We're talking about on field results DK nothing more or less. Thats like me saying Joe Jurevicious is better than TO because he doesn't want more money.
Soldierboy, also had alot of money taken from him after his motorcycle crash, rightfully so because the team didn't know if he'd be able to perform as expected. Now he has proven 2 years running he can, so I don't really blame him for trying to make up for the money that was taken from him, call me crazy, but he's not exactly acting like Chad Johnson who just signed a multi year contract a few years back, he's trying to make up money the team previously took from him.
While neither of these TEs approaches the greatness of Ben Utecht or Reggie Kelly, for this particular argument I'd rather have Winslow than Miller. Not that it means much of anything, but I guarantee you that if they were to take a poll of the people in the game who was better K2 or Heath, K2 would would gather more votes. Again I know that doesn't matter, just thought I'd throw that in.
Basically they are both pretty good and when that happens you will have blind allegiances toward the guy in your colors. I'm not saying Mano is being the homer or if it's me, but sometimes it's hard to see through your loyalty to a particular player.
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:May 23, 2007
|
|
and really I like most all of you.. It is more fun to talk football with you guys then talk anymore Chad Johnson.. I just don't care for Gmiller's snoody attitude and remarks...
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 18, 2007
|
|
Mano,
I didn't say that, one of your guys did.
I was merely illustrating that one of our guys agreed with you. Sorry for the misleading quote box.
The Browns attempted 545 passes last year to the Steelers 442. That is 103 more pass attempts. Strangely, though, the Browns only completed 23 more passes(305 -282).
Excellent point. And if you compare the two quarterbacks, Rothelisberger's 65.3 percent is much better than Anderson's 56.5 percent. But you did exclude something from this analysis, and that was that only 34 completions separated Ben and Derek but also why the Browns had to throw 103 more times than the Steelers did.
You need to be careful how you use your stats...you are not comparing apples to apples so to speak. As I just mentioned, you left out an important stat. I disagree with you that I was not comparing the appropriate stats. Time of possession, which favors the Steelers average by almost four mintues (29:30 versus 33:28), tells the rest of my story.
The Steelers led more often than they trailed in games. This allowed Ben to "take some plays off" at the ends of game. If you look at the rushing statistics, this further proves my point. The Steelers rushed 511 times for 2,168 yards and 9 touchdowns. The Browns rushed 439 times for 1,894 yards and 13 touchdowns. That's a differene of 72 rushes in the season, or 4.5 times per game.
The reason that Anderson did not "look else where" was because he was unable to. He had to go to Braylon and Kellen to make the receptions, move the chains, and try to win the game. Rothelisberger was able to let the running game finish many games for him. This is the reason for the discrepancy between times thrown versus receptions each player had.
The fact still remains that Braylon and Kellen outperformed every other receiving tandem in the NFL, regardless of the circumstances. I'd venture a guess that Cincinnati and Arizona both played from behind more often than the Browns, but the numbers don't match what our receivers did.
Our receivers were still covered, as were the Steelers receivers, they simply managed to put up better numbers when they got an opportunity to make a play. If you took the average amount of plays that Ben would have to throw per game to match Anderson (2.1 times) and the average of the combination between Ward and Holmes (14.3), you're only going to make up for about 476 yards.
|
|
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 17, 2007
|
|
Make sure you know what you are talkin about before you start attacking....
DK, I'm not attacking. You are the one doing all the attacking here, maybe you did post before G, but everytime I see the two of you post on here it turns out to be the same thing, you attack G, before he even acknowledges anything you say. All I was doing is asking you to stay on point. You are a good poster when you do, but when you constantly rehash the same old problem you had with G over on the Bengals board it adds nothing to the conversation.
Remember we won the division.. We made the playoffs... It suree will be laughable if the Bengals go 7-9 again or worse..
I would hope you wouldn't be laughing if your team does badly again.
I have learned success one year does not mean success the next year.
I would think everyone already knew that, but it does bring optimism.
Remember we won the division.. We made the playoffs...
Yes I do remember that and I still see alot of talent on your team if you can get rid of the distraction and your defensive moves pay off maybe you guys can make a good run this year. I never said that Cleveland was the greates thing going. I also remember since 1990 we have had as many and I'm pretty sure 1 more playoff run than Cincy, that's the only point I was making, you act as if Cincy has been less of a doormat than Cleveland and that's not true.
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:May 23, 2007
|
|
We're talking about on field results DK nothing more or less. Thats like me saying Joe Jurevicious is better than TO because he doesn't want more money.
Soldierboy, also had alot of money taken from him after his motorcycle crash, rightfully so because the team didn't know if he'd be able to perform as expected. Now he has proven 2 years running he can, so I don't really blame him for trying to make up for the money that was taken from him, call me crazy, but he's not exactly acting like Chad Johnson who just signed a multi year contract a few years back, he's trying to make up money the team previously took from him.
While neither of these TEs approaches the greatness of Ben Utecht or Reggie Kelly, for this particular argument I'd rather have Winslow than Miller. Not that it means much of anything, but I guarantee you that if they were to take a poll of the people in the game who was better K2 or Heath, K2 would would gather more votes. Again I know that doesn't matter, just thought I'd throw that in.
Basically they are both pretty good and when that happens you will have blind allegiances toward the guy in your colors. I'm not saying Mano is being the homer or if it's me, but sometimes it's hard to see through your loyalty to a particular player.
Beans,
First of all I'd rather have alot of other WR's right now than Chad Johnson. That wasn't my point.. A better comparison for the J.J. to T.O. would be Chad Johnson vs Reggie Wayne.. I would much rather have Reggie Wayne!
I have no love for either Miler and or Winslow.. Miller has had beetterrr games vs the Bengals than Winslow.. I was just giving my 2 cents.. Winslow has better stats but he gets more throws his way...
As far as Utecht and Kelly that was funny took a page ooutt off my book beans.. No I could go Gmiller and say well Utecht is going to be a #1 and he has a lot of weapons and this or that or I could just say good one.... We also drafted a kid name Matt Sherry, after Rookie Minicamp Marvin couldn't stop raving about... But I give it to you that was a funny one!
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 18, 2007
|
|
Correction.
If you took the average amount of plays that Ben would have to throw per game to match Anderson (2.1 times) and the average of the combination between Ward and Holmes (14.3), you're only going to make up for about 476 yards.
I previously stated Ward and Holmes, but it should have included Miller. That would have been 13.5 average over 34 times, which is more like 459 yards. If you took the touchdown rate for Rothelisberger (12 percent) and prorated that over the 34 extra receptions, it would have added 4 touchdowns. So the final stat line would look something like this:
Edwards + Winslow: 162 receptions, 2,395 yards, 21 touchdowns, 14.8 average
Ward, Holmes, Miller: 204 receptions, 2,499 yards, 26 touchdowns, 13.5 average
While that certainly looks better, it still doesn't explain why your top three receiving targets only meagerly exceed the production of our top two.
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 17, 2006
|
|
It's hard to say what people were thinking 2-3 years ago. Personally I don't remember a "ton of questions". I remember after the first year there were people predicting the sophomore jinx. Then he came out and won a Super Bowl in his second season. While some people liked to point to his poor performance in the super bowl (and it was poor), others pointed to his play at Cincinnati, Indy and Denver (which was impressive).
If you put a gun to my head I would say the only "questions" were from the people playing devils advocate. Here was a guy after 2 seasons with a 28-4 record, a super bowl win and a career qb rating of 98+. The questions as I remember them were, "This guy can't be that good can he?".
I think the comparison of DA to Ben is a stretch anyway you try it. Doesn't mean he won't have success. I'm not a NFL coach. But he clearly struggled in the second half and if you take away Cincinnati (1st one), Miami and St. Louis game his stats are 18 TD's and 18 picks with a completion pct of 54%. I know to take away anyone's top 3 games is not fair but what makes it important is the teams he did it against. They were 3 of the worst defensive teams in the league.
As for the films on how they will defend him I guess you could be right. But if that's how it is going to work the second Cincinnati game didn't work out in his favor (yes wind didn't help him).
|
|
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:May 23, 2007
|
|
Yes I do remember that and I still see alot of talent on your team if you can get rid of the distraction and your defensive moves pay off maybe you guys can make a good run this year. I never said that Cleveland was the greates thing going. I also remember since 1990 we have had as many and I'm pretty sure 1 more playoff run than Cincy, that's the only point I was making, you act as if Cincy has been less of a doormat than Cleveland and that's not true.
I wont really argue but Lets compare it since Marvin Lewis came...
Marvin Lewis vs Romeo Crennel- 5-1
Bengals records 8-8, 8-8, 11-5, 8-8, 7-9... Not really a doormat football team.. I see it as a Mediocore Team...
Browns records 5-11, 4-12, 6-10, 4-12, 10-6,
|
|
|
Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 7, 2006
|
The Steelers led more often than they trailed in games. This allowed Ben to "take some plays off" at the ends of game. If you look at the rushing statistics, this further proves my point. The Steelers rushed 511 times for 2,168 yards and 9 touchdowns. The Browns rushed 439 times for 1,894 yards and 13 touchdowns. That's a differene of 72 rushes in the season, or 4.5 times per game.
Good point SAS. It also shows the difference in philosophy between the two teams. The Steelers and the Browns finished with identical 10-6 records, as so many of you like to point out, so to say that the Steelers were nursing leads more than the Browns isn't entirely accurate. The Steelers trailed and had to keep Ben throwing late into the game almost as often as the Browns, but the difference is, Ben completed more passes, eliminating the need to attempt more passes. As for the rushing stats, if you watched the games, the Steelers try to stay balanced, even when they are trailing. It certainly effects the passing stats, but Ben's consistency allowed the Steelers the luxury of running the ball on first or second down when trailing late, without the fear of only giving him one shot at converting for the first down.
When I said you weren't comparing apples to apples, I didn't mean you weren't comparing the appropriate stats, but instead, that you can't compare the players from two teams who run such different philosophies on offense. The Steelers receivers will never put up the same statistics as receivers on some other teams because the Steelers don't play the same game that the Colts, Pats, Bengals, and Browns play. Just different philosophies, not inferior talent. If Braylon Edwards was a Steeler his numbers would not have been anywhere near what they were for the Browns.
|
|
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 17, 2007
|
|
Miller has had beetterrr games vs the Bengals than Winslow
DK in the 2 years Winlsow has played, WInslow has had the far better games against your Bengals.
K2 Winslow 94 yds recieving 0 tds in 2006/2007 173 yards receiving 1 TD
Miller 2006 34 yards receiving 0 TD/2007 72 yards 0 TD
Speaking objectionably DK, how can you consider Miller doing better than Winslow against your Bengals? Look it up, the numbers clearly doesn't support your statement. If you want to say you think the Steelers are better than the Browns, by all means go ahead, but try to use better examples than that to support your case.
|
|
