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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006
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Yep, I said it. Under Bo Ryan, atleast the way Bo CURRENTLY coaches, the Badgers cannot win a national championship. He will have plenty of 30 win seasons, he'll win conference titles, heck he might even make a Final Four, but if he doesn't atleast TWEAK the way he coaches then we will never win it all. ALL OF YOU know I am a huge proponent of the Bagders, I am a Badger fan, I have been as big of a Bo Ryan proponent as there has ever been and I at times have even been a homer. So how can I say we can never win it all if I am all those things I just said I was. Well here is why. It was a revelation that hot me yesterday as I watched Memphis disembowel UCLA. You see if follow CBB closely then you know that Wisconsin and UCLA in most ways are mirror images of each other right now. No the Badgers don't have UCLA's history or tradition and the Badgers do not have as highly touted recruiting classes. But that's my point, Howland plays a help style man to man defense that practically mirrors Bo Ryan's, Howland's team value possessions and shot selection, just like Bo Ryan's teams, you see whiule UCLA might not run the swing, the fact is UCLA is AS CLOSE to being what Bo Ryan's Badgers are in all of D1 basketball. Their style on both ends, their coaches philosophies, the way they want things, it is like watching a west coast version of the Badgers when you watch UCLA. You see that is WHY I had this revelation. Ben Howland's UCLA teams ARE the Wisconsin Badgers with better talent. Pound of Pound up and down the roster UCLA has better players than Wisconsin talent wise, their guys buy into the system just like UW, their guys play hard nose defense just like the Badgers, and they run an efficient offense jsut like the Badgers and they do so with NBA caliber talent at every position, and that STILL isn't enough to win it all in the current NCAA environment. Memphis had their way with UCLA, and I suspect UNC would have too and maybe even Kansas. Three straight years UCLA has made the final four, three straight years they have lost, this year Howland said was his BEST TEAM EVER, and it still wasn't enough, if UCLA cannot win with that style with the talent they have how can we really seriously hope the Badgers can ever win it all with the talent they have. I am not down on the Badgers, I am happy for their accomplishments, I am definitely NOT saying fire Bo Ryan, I still love him and 30 win season and conference titles are great, but my eyes tell me it isn't enough to get that ever elusive national title. Not unless Bo takes a page from Coach Calipari and changes SOMETHING that will allow him to take that next step.
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 11, 2007
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i think he can win it if we start getting lots of good recruits and every few years an elite recruit, we need to get more athletic.
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 26, 2006
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Getting good recruits doesnt matter in Bo's current system, they'll just end up playing defensive minded, "old school basketball". Bo has to tweak the Swing Offense...and to me UW and UCLA are more alike defensively than they are offensively. UCLA is good defensively but they are a lot more skilled and athletic on the offensive end than we are. There arent a whole lot of athletic guys on our team...its really just a bunch of guys who are very good at playing their positions without having to do much else. Its cool that we can win games scoring only 50 points but at the same time its kinda embarrassing. We are supposed to be an elite program but we get out hustled by teams all the time that have no business even playing us (Davidson). Basically what im trying to say is that we are slow...Memphis, Kansas, and North Carolina ran all day yesterday, and the games were extremely fun to watch. If Bo wants to win at a high level he has to give his guys some leeway to run the floor instead of walking the basketball up the court and using the entire shot clock. Call your new offense the "Run and Swing" and let your players play sound ATHLETIC basketball.
I feel ya karra.
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 25, 2007
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I disagree with the final conclusion that you are drawing - that it is impossible to win it all with this style of basketball. I agree that UCLA is in some ways a mirror of Bucky however just because they haven't won in the Final Four doesn't mean anything. I think that everyone gets wrapped up with absolutes. The swing offense can't win against talent...etc.
I think of two things with every game - matchups and chance. The fact is that every time that people go out to play a game there is some chance and luck involved. A bad bounce, a shot that just isn't falling for someone, a bad call, a rolled ankle of your starting point guard, the list goes on and on. I do believe that luck favors the well prepared. Knowing tendencies of the other team, spending time working on your shot, time running suicides to improve conditioning, etc - but that doesn't mean that there still isn't some chance involved.
The other factor is matchups. This is where your arguement has some merit. The swing offense as a system doesn't matchup particularly well against two types of teams - athletic run & gun styles if the pace becomes frenzied (see UNLV exit in the tournament last year) and teams that run solid offense and shoot the three well (see Davidson, Duke...actually all of this years losses).
With every game I like to think of the game in terms of a percentage taking into account both of these factors. For example, on a neutral court playing that Davidson game 100 times how often does Wisconsin win. I think that it probably comes out about 60-40 Badgers. If Wisconsin were to play Memphis I would say about 80-20 Tigers. For UCLA vs Memphis, I would say about 60-40 Tigers. Are there sure things in this world? Probably but they are games like my High School Basketball team against the Badgers. I would give that game to the Badgers 100 out of 100. But in NCAA Div I basketball there are very few of those matchups.
So could the Badgers win the whole thing? In my opinion yes but it would come down to having a good draw and getting the better bounces of the ball for six straight games. Would their chances improve with a different offense (or a tweaked swing)? Maybe but I do not think I am nearly smart enough to second guess Bo's system. I would prefer to think that Bo is always trying to come up with the game plan that will solve the matchup problems that they face.
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Jul 9, 2007
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I think this is way to broad of a statement. Just because UCLA lost in the final four again doesnt mean that they CANT win it, it just means they didnt. If UCLA was losing every year in the 1st round that would be one thing but they have made three straight final 4's which means the style they play is extremely successful. You have to have some luck along the way and for whatever reason the cards havnt fallen in UCLA's favor in the final 4, and their style of play has very little to do with it. If that style can get you to 3 straight final 4's there is no reason it cant take you all the way with a little luck. If Memphis loses tonight does it mean that there is now way a team that plays their style will win it all in the future?
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 10, 2006
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UCLA is good defensively but they are a lot more skilled and athletic on the offensive end than we are
That is because of the talent they have,. If Bo coached UCLA and Howland coached UW I think you would see very very similar results from both.
I think this is way to broad of a statement. Just because UCLA lost in the final four again doesnt mean that they CANT win it, it just means they didnt. If UCLA was losing every year in the 1st round that would be one thing but they have made three straight final 4's which means the style they play is extremely successful. You have to have some luck along the way and for whatever reason the cards havnt fallen in UCLA's favor in the final 4, and their style of play has very little to do with it. If that style can get you to 3 straight final 4's there is no reason it cant take you all the way with a little luck. If Memphis loses tonight does it mean that there is now way a team that plays their style will win it all in the future?
UCLA's recruiting classes cannot get any better than they are. Yes they have been to three final fours but look at who they have played along the way to get to them. Like another poster above mentioned most of UCLA's matchups have been favorable. If Memphis loses tonight their style CAN still win a championship, so long as they continue to get top five recruits and have a starting five of which ALL will be in the NBA running it (like this year), the two are apples and oranges, by the way. Listen, in the big scheme of things nothing is ABSOLUTE, perhaps I may be proven wrong, if so HAPPY FRIGGIN DAY, but even when defending the Badgers I think I have always brought facts and logic to the argument. To me this DDM offense of Memphis is taking the nation by storm at all levels and to me it is that style of offense (regardless of who is running it) that seems to be an absolute killer to Howland and Ryan's style of defense. Again, UCLA has NBA potential all over the place on their roster and they keep getting shut down by more atheltic teams who dribble drive and then can kick out and hit the outside shot. In the vast scheme of D1 there are not ALOT of teams that could beat a Bo Ryan Badger team consistantly, but the handful that could would be regularly looming in the Final Four. With the new NBA rule, the rich jsut got richer if you know what I mean and I don't think that four #1 seeds all in the Final Four is a fluke going forward, I think the Final Four will be wrought with #1 and #2 seeds in the future. I think the old rule with the "best kids" going pro and skipping college benefited most of the other D1 schools and hurt the powerhouses as it leveled the playing field. Now with the new rule in place the traditional powers just got their advantage back. Again, I love Bo, I am not questioning his style overall, and if we keep winning conference titles, and ahvign 30 win seasons and making regular trips to the dance with varying success, hey, I am all for it, no complaints, but the reality is that something has to change IF he/we want to take the next step.
Quick example of a SMALL change, look at Krabbenhoft, the guy was a scoring machine from inside AND OUTSIDE in high school. The arc is the same distance in college, so is the free throw line etc... now all fo a sudden Krabbs can't shoot. That is coaching, sometimes I think Bo coaches the killer instinct out of guys. You don't have to chaneg the swing, you don't have to change your defense, you don;t have to change your overall philosophies, but some of the smaller philosophies MIGHT need tweaking, liek giving guys a little more freedom on offense, like giving some talented freshman more courttime during the season so they can contribute in March. I'd rather lose a game in December giving a freshman some minutes and have him ready for March than NOT giving him those minutes and winning that December game only to not have that depth come March (ya feelin me). I know this team CAN score, I know they aren't a plodding Dick Bennett style of basketball, but SOMETIMES, just SOMETIMES in MARCH you plain just need to outscore another team, SOEMTIMES even if your defense is playing great the other team still scores and YOUR TEAM needs to just plain be able to outscore them. It is not game in and game out, that is why the regular season hides these faws so well, because there is always "next game" that makes us forget, but March is not that kind. Ie, against Davidson the Badgers needed the ABILITY to outscore Davidson, and the Badgers couldn't do that, they lost Trevon a great defender) and Davidson was hitting everything and the Badgers needed to be able to score points and they couldn't. Same with UCLA against Memphis, some teams can't be shut down defensively and you have to be able to outscore them, UCLA can't do that. Note even when UW or UCLA score alot of points, it is usually set up by great defensive efforts that allow them to run their offense efficiently. When they can't do that they get stymied. Again, love Bo, love Badgers, but reality has set in.
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Bo & Badgers Cannot win it all
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 26, 2006
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That is because of the talent they have,. If Bo coached UCLA and Howland coached UW I think you would see very very similar results from both.Exactly my point. If we stop recruiting guys that ONLY fit into our system then we would be a much different team. One Joe Krabbenhoft is enough for any team...we have like 6. Im not saying that we should stop recruiting "hustle players" all together, maybe one or two a class, and the rest dynamic athletes, depending on how many scholarships we have. Bo needs talent not fillers, if he gets it he will make final four runs on a regular basis.
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